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Brake upgrade to Cobra 13--E Z!

Discussion in 'LS-427' started by Prof, Sep 1, 2008.

  1. Prof

    Prof Member

    Picked up my LS427 kit (Stage 1) and thought the new spindles looked outstanding. Went to fabricator/machinist and had him develop a mounting bracket for the Cobra caliper and 13" slotted rotor. After digging thru old boxes of parts, mock up went effortlessly. Requires 17" wheels. Also working on other rotor/caliper configurations. Don't ask me what I think of Wilwood products--the fact that I am going to the expense and time to fabricate something FARRR superior using OEM stuff should be obvious enough. Also has to do with track failure/fade/breakage of Wilwood stuff on SCCA cars.

    [​IMG]

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    Will keep posting the pics as it all gets finalized.

    Thanks for welcoming me aboard. I must say: being a newbie is intimidating!

    Paul ("Prof")
    McKinney TX
     
  2. KenC

    KenC Member

    What's the thickness of the rotor?
     
  3. Prof

    Prof Member

    The rotor pictured measures 13" tall and 1 1/8" thick. Picked it up at NAPA for $90 each. I also have several that have the "super cooling" venting--slightly lighter, too. They measure 1" thick.
     
  4. Prof

    Prof Member

    Took nearly 4 months of fabrication , but the spindle brackets for Mustang II to Cobra OEM brakes are finally ready. CAD/Laser/Waterjet produced several prototypes, but I waited on the final product to say anything (I promised Brian and Joel that I would keep them in the loop). Actually worked to create two types of brackets with a third on the way--Mustang II regular, Mustang II dropped 2" for the street rod boys, and one for Granada spindles on vintage Mustangs for the restomod guys. Adapts easily to He*dt's stuff.

    Now, no more need to "upgrade" to Wilw**d products. Go higher up to Cobra/Cobra R setups for less money.

    I should have a set on my Stage 1 "track bit*h" build before next weekend. I will let you know how it goes. Waiting on patent app to go through. Watch for ads on ClubCobra and in Street Rodder, Mustangs and Fast Fords.

    Bolt-on kits using OEM calipers/pads/rotors and existing hydraulics available soon.

    Special thanks to Brian for selling me LoneStar's Mustang II spindle early on--it means that the brakes that I want but couldn't have--could be made for perfect fit. Now I bolt them on.

    Best,
    Paul
     
  5. sseaner

    sseaner Member

    Prof, are you going to the Texas Cobra meet in March?
     
  6. Prof

    Prof Member

    [​IMG]

    WOO-HOO! THE BRACKETS ARE FINALLY DONE AFTER AN 8-MONTH QUEST.
    YAY! It's done. Designed, fabbed, cut, measured, corrected, waterjetted, fit, powdercoated, paid for (ouch!) and ready to go. And the greater beauty is the fact that the set-up was designed using the common parts sold for LoneStar 427 kits with Heidt's/Mustang II spindles.

    Considerations: Wilwood hubs place the mounting surface of the wheel 1/4" to 3/8" outboard from the vintage Mustang hubs used in this setup. Those using this setup will experience the difference INBOARD. Don't worry, nothing will rub. It will tuck in your fronts 1/4". (Or you can get a thin spacer to place the tire where you want it.)

    How to use: Unbolt your front caliper, rotors, and caliper-to-spindle bracket, bolt brackets on, mount your 13" rotors-Cobra calipers-lines, bleed the system, and go. Will not fit 15" wheels. Will not clear my 16x7" TT2s (16x8, yes) that I had in storage. Works great with FR500 and other late model offsets. I have 17x7 / 9.5 TT2 on my Shelby and will check clearance today.

    My thoughts (good and bad): Off-the shelf parts, easy-to-get pads in multiple compounds, '94 to '03 Cobra calipers best and most reliable ever produced.Wilwood designed theirs to stop a 2800 lb car; these are designed to stop a 3800 lb car. BUT, what if there is a different feel in the master cylinder modulation to force fluid into a caliper that is 4 piston and MAY BE different in fluid volume requirements (should only be slight)? Will this make the pedal softer or harder? Can this be compensated for by using grippier pads? Reset the proportioning valve to increase rear braking? Are the lines used by Wilwood the same thread pattern as the Ford Racing Cobra caliper, thereby eliminating the need to purchase new flexible lines?

    Next step: An ad goes up at ClubCobra, Street Rod websites, and Vintage Ford F-100. Basically, target anyone who uses Mustang II standard or 2" drop spindles with 17" or larger wheels. Maybe Heidts will sell these as an option to GM caliper applications.

    Focus Group: My LS427 is 2 years from being drivable. I have two complete set ups and need them road tested and opinions offered. Any volunteers? One set up has 3" studs (FR500 and late model offsets), the other has standard size vintage Mustang studs (TT2s and Hallibrand). Both Ford 5/4.5 pattern. If you are in the North Dallas area, we can use my garage lift and hang these setups and bleed them pretty darn fast. Later, we can also remount your original setups without a glitch. I only ask that you let me look closely at your LS427's underside. ***I am in Denton and LoneStar's new Fort Worth location regularly. Details on the front brakes loan when you call and there will be a lot of agreements via handshakes. (all you lawyers can cringe at that one!)

    Last thing: WHAT KINDS OF QUESTIONS MIGHT YOU HAVE WHEN CONSIDERING SWITCHING OVER TO A DIFFERENT FRONT BRAKE SETUP ? WHAT COULD BRIAN SAY TO YOU THAT WOULD MAKE YOU CHOOSE BETWEEN ONE OR ANOTHER BRAKE UPGRADE WHEN PURCHASING A KIT? I need to know what doubts or questions are rattling around in your head. I have no ego attached to this, so if you think I fell out of a tree and hit my head too hard, tell me. If you think this is stupidly "re-inventing the wheel" for something that already exists, tell me. Like I said, I have no ego attached to this--at all.

    By the way, anyone willing to take this to San Marcos and set it on a card table for people to check out and comment on????? I may be able to pay a small transportation fee for your willingness to gather the questions.

    And now...Thanks for your time reading this; I really mean that. My refusal to use anything with the name Wilwood on it makes this my own issue to work out. You've been a great listener today.

    Best,
    Paul
    972-816-8009

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  7. Tugboat

    Tugboat Member

    WOW!!

    Prof,

    Someone will bring them to TCC for you I am sure. I can't wait to see them.

    Larry
     
  8. 2FordToys

    2FordToys New Member

    Hey Paul,

    I will be test car for you. I will try and call some time this weekend. I would like to have this set up. lets talk and see what it will take to make it happen.

    If you like I will haul you parts down to San Marcos. Brian usually has a table set up should be able to display them there. Let me know.

    John
     
  9. Prof

    Prof Member

    John,
    Thanks. I am an official with the SCCA and will be at Eagle's Canyon most of this week end. I can work with you tho.

    I have two complete kits ready to go. The fabricated parts include a centering ring that goes on the hub to ensure exact placement of the rotor, and the brackets. What length/ kind of studs are on your car? I have 3" studs for my track car setup and standard length for others. Axle bearings are # BR12 and BR13 and I have a bunch of those also. Front pads are the OEM Cobra R street compund.

    The only issue we might have, and we can check into it early, is the brake hose configuration. I don't know the exact thread for the Cobra caliper hose (banjo?) Let me see if I can get a Wilwood hose to screw onto a Cobra caliper. Otherwise, we will have to adapt the Cobra hose onto your front hardlines, and that can be messy. Your m/c should be spot on for the amount of fluid that the caliper needs.

    I need to make an instruction manual in printed form and a YouTube version. I might shoot some photos as we go.

    I have a funky prop for displaying the brackets on a spindle. I hope it finds its way to San Marcos.

    John, I will get my '70 Boss 302 shell down off the lift. Then we can act like a couple of old men with bad backs and bring your car to our level. How convenient!

    My cell is 972.816.8009 (In Stonebridge near Stonebrige Dr and El Dorado.)

    Let me know when you are available. Give me several time slots. Others in the area might want to come watch.

    Best,
    Paul
     
  10. 2FordToys

    2FordToys New Member

    Paul, you are only 2 or 3 miles away. I am at Custer just north of Eldoarado. As for time I am available most weekends and most days after 6. This does not need to happen before San Marcos I just wanted to let you know I would take your parts down for all to see.

    John
     
  11. OGERCOBRA

    OGERCOBRA New Member

    I have tried just about everything using the stock set up to get my cobra to stop. I have two porportioning valves to reduce the rear brakes and they will still lock up before my fronts. I have ordered some hawk pads to try and increase the bite on the fronts.

    I will be at the cobra meet this week and will be participating in the BBORR again this April. I will also be trying out the Texas mile in October but neither of those events use much braking.
     
  12. CapnCrunch

    CapnCrunch Member

    Not sure why the problems stopping the car. I have Hawking pads and it has a firm pedal but I can stop without proportioning valves, without locking the wheels up etc.

    What is the projected cost on the new 13" setup, any guesses?
    8)
    CC
     
  13. Prof

    Prof Member

    San Marcos: John Ross has the display of the 13" Cobra mock up with real parts and brackets. He told me it will be at Lonestar or Keith Craft or just wherever throughout the weekend.

    $600: The price you see on the display is simply what it cost for me to take the bare Heidt's spindle used by Lonestar and others and then bolt on the Super Bad 13" Cobra brakes using new parts. I guess someone could spend gobs more by buying new hubs and studs--that would be a personal preference and does not reflect my choice.

    John Ross gets a setup installed on his Cobra when he gets back from the Texas meet. He has Team 3 wheels with the right backspacing and I need to guarantee fitment with no interference between caliper and wheel. I am expecting a Factory Five 17" Halibrand knock-off to also check the clearance.

    Y'all drive careful,
    Paul
     
  14. 2FordToys

    2FordToys New Member

    Paul,

    Your display is back in Mckinney. I also have your new AC. Rob had left early and so Gary found me. It is sitting in my shop whenever you want it.

    John
     

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